From a discussion between fellow believers on Facebook:
Bro S asked: "Do you think God can commune with people who are 'positionally' righteous (i.e., righteous in Christ) but not personally righteous (i.e., righteous in their own actions)?"
JLV responds: Being positionally righteous is what gives you the power and motive force (i.e., the indwelling Holy Spirit) to be personally righteous. If you have a complete lack of personal righteousness, I would question your positional righteousness.
Still, I understand and agree with you that are actions can affect our communion with God, but only as a hindrance or a help; they can neither abolish nor establish it. Christ's Atonement makes you positionally righteous, and thus reestablishes the communion man lost at the Fall. Your personal righteousness only serves to strengthen or weaken (or keep stagnant) that communion.
Bro JS asked: "Can one be 'personally' righteous in this life?"
JLV responds: We can be "personally" righteous, but only because we have been made "positionally" righteous. Remember, any righteous action we do is not us, but God working in and through us.
Bro JE asked: "Just curious about your phrase 'but are destined to stay separate from Him forever, which is the true meaning of Hell.' I understand that separation from God is part of hell, but there is a definite punitive aspect of hell, and that punishment must be meted out. That punishment only intensifies the abandonment...or the abandonment intensifies the punishment. They go hand in hand."
JLV responds: I do believe that there is a punitive aspect to Hell, and that the punishment and abandonment go hand in hand. However, I've believe that the punishment and abandonment are so hand in hand that they are one and the same.
For me, 'separation from God' is not merely a separation in regards to proximity (i.e., God's here and you're there). It is a complete severance from all that is good in the universe (i.e., God). God is the source of (and His very nature is made up of) all good things (e.g. the fruits of the Spirit). To separate from Him is to be separate from those things and bound to their opposites.
God is light; to be separate from Him is to know only darkness. God is love; to be separate from Him is to know only hatred. God is peace; to be separate from Him is to know only confusion and chaos. God is joy; to be separate from Him is to know only sorrow. Etc., etc. My definition of Heaven is absolute communion (i.e., complete unification) with God; thus, my definition of Hell is absolute communion (i.e., complete unification) with not-God. To be bound in an intimate and total way to God is heaven; to be bound in an intimate and total way to everything God is not is hell.
Therefore, the abandonment is the punishment because it is a complete severance from God and thus a complete unification with all He is not (e.g., darkness, hatred, chaos, sorrow, etc.). When we desire God, our desire becomes our reward; when we desire not-God, our desire becomes our punishment.
Bro S asked: "Do you think God can commune with people who are 'positionally' righteous (i.e., righteous in Christ) but not personally righteous (i.e., righteous in their own actions)?"
JLV responds: Being positionally righteous is what gives you the power and motive force (i.e., the indwelling Holy Spirit) to be personally righteous. If you have a complete lack of personal righteousness, I would question your positional righteousness.
Still, I understand and agree with you that are actions can affect our communion with God, but only as a hindrance or a help; they can neither abolish nor establish it. Christ's Atonement makes you positionally righteous, and thus reestablishes the communion man lost at the Fall. Your personal righteousness only serves to strengthen or weaken (or keep stagnant) that communion.
Bro JS asked: "Can one be 'personally' righteous in this life?"
JLV responds: We can be "personally" righteous, but only because we have been made "positionally" righteous. Remember, any righteous action we do is not us, but God working in and through us.
Bro JE asked: "Just curious about your phrase 'but are destined to stay separate from Him forever, which is the true meaning of Hell.' I understand that separation from God is part of hell, but there is a definite punitive aspect of hell, and that punishment must be meted out. That punishment only intensifies the abandonment...or the abandonment intensifies the punishment. They go hand in hand."
JLV responds: I do believe that there is a punitive aspect to Hell, and that the punishment and abandonment go hand in hand. However, I've believe that the punishment and abandonment are so hand in hand that they are one and the same.
For me, 'separation from God' is not merely a separation in regards to proximity (i.e., God's here and you're there). It is a complete severance from all that is good in the universe (i.e., God). God is the source of (and His very nature is made up of) all good things (e.g. the fruits of the Spirit). To separate from Him is to be separate from those things and bound to their opposites.
God is light; to be separate from Him is to know only darkness. God is love; to be separate from Him is to know only hatred. God is peace; to be separate from Him is to know only confusion and chaos. God is joy; to be separate from Him is to know only sorrow. Etc., etc. My definition of Heaven is absolute communion (i.e., complete unification) with God; thus, my definition of Hell is absolute communion (i.e., complete unification) with not-God. To be bound in an intimate and total way to God is heaven; to be bound in an intimate and total way to everything God is not is hell.
Therefore, the abandonment is the punishment because it is a complete severance from God and thus a complete unification with all He is not (e.g., darkness, hatred, chaos, sorrow, etc.). When we desire God, our desire becomes our reward; when we desire not-God, our desire becomes our punishment.
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